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	<title>Comments on: This will teach you&#8230;</title>
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		<title>By: Adam Piontek</title>
		<link>http://www.alexdorival.com/rr/2006/04/20/this-will-teach-you/comment-page-1/#comment-98</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Piontek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 May 2006 14:38:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alexdorival.com/rr/2006/04/20/this-will-teach-you/#comment-98</guid>
		<description>It is very much a class issue.  The assumption that something like a greenmarket would of course be loud and dirty, associated as it is with the lower castes, is an elitist attitude.  To the extent that we middle-class privileged individuals might share those reactions were we in their situation, it stems from our own desire (conscious or not) to be a part of and identify with the more privileged classes slightly above us.  And so on up the ziggurat...

Certainly any neighborhood should have &lt;i&gt;some&lt;/i&gt; control over what its larger community can impose upon it &#8212; hence block organizations, community boards, the whole system &#8212; but some people (and some neighborhoods) are more equal than others.  Which brings me to my next point.

Wealth and privilege afforded them the ability to mount a strong defense incredibly quickly.  Should they have succeeded and then plans for a second greenmarket gone forth in a poorer neighborhood, &lt;b&gt;and&lt;/b&gt; if the lower class neighborhood were against it, they would likely not have had the ability to oppose it.  This happens over and over with &lt;i&gt;actual&lt;/i&gt; negative developments like industrial infrastructure.

I think the fact that there were two proposed locations, one in a wealthier area and one in a poorer area, supports either one of or both of these theories.  There was no opposition to the greenmarket in the poorer area.  Either they did not have the natural assumption of elites that such a thing would be noisy, dirty and attract poor people &#8212; or they did but didn&#039;t have the skills and experience necessary to organize against it (they certainly knew about it, we flyered that neighborhood like the dickens).  Or both.

(On the other hand, the flyering could have been the significant variable in this experiment &#8212; too bad we learned of the second location later than the first.  Possibly it wouldn&#039;t have made a positive difference, serving instead as advance warning to give them more time to find arguments to support their predisposed position &#8212; but I&#039;m loathe to make my own class-based assumptions and further perpetuate and compound the problems.  We&#039;ll definitely be trying to get &lt;i&gt;all&lt;/i&gt; power loci on our side &quot;next time.&quot;  It would be nice to have the advantages of wealth and privilege working for us, to the benefit of everyone in the area.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is very much a class issue.  The assumption that something like a greenmarket would of course be loud and dirty, associated as it is with the lower castes, is an elitist attitude.  To the extent that we middle-class privileged individuals might share those reactions were we in their situation, it stems from our own desire (conscious or not) to be a part of and identify with the more privileged classes slightly above us.  And so on up the ziggurat&#8230;</p>
<p>Certainly any neighborhood should have <i>some</i> control over what its larger community can impose upon it &#8212; hence block organizations, community boards, the whole system &#8212; but some people (and some neighborhoods) are more equal than others.  Which brings me to my next point.</p>
<p>Wealth and privilege afforded them the ability to mount a strong defense incredibly quickly.  Should they have succeeded and then plans for a second greenmarket gone forth in a poorer neighborhood, <b>and</b> if the lower class neighborhood were against it, they would likely not have had the ability to oppose it.  This happens over and over with <i>actual</i> negative developments like industrial infrastructure.</p>
<p>I think the fact that there were two proposed locations, one in a wealthier area and one in a poorer area, supports either one of or both of these theories.  There was no opposition to the greenmarket in the poorer area.  Either they did not have the natural assumption of elites that such a thing would be noisy, dirty and attract poor people &#8212; or they did but didn&#8217;t have the skills and experience necessary to organize against it (they certainly knew about it, we flyered that neighborhood like the dickens).  Or both.</p>
<p>(On the other hand, the flyering could have been the significant variable in this experiment &#8212; too bad we learned of the second location later than the first.  Possibly it wouldn&#8217;t have made a positive difference, serving instead as advance warning to give them more time to find arguments to support their predisposed position &#8212; but I&#8217;m loathe to make my own class-based assumptions and further perpetuate and compound the problems.  We&#8217;ll definitely be trying to get <i>all</i> power loci on our side &#8220;next time.&#8221;  It would be nice to have the advantages of wealth and privilege working for us, to the benefit of everyone in the area.)</p>
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		<title>By: Leshka</title>
		<link>http://www.alexdorival.com/rr/2006/04/20/this-will-teach-you/comment-page-1/#comment-97</link>
		<dc:creator>Leshka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Apr 2006 23:07:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alexdorival.com/rr/2006/04/20/this-will-teach-you/#comment-97</guid>
		<description>And I lived above the Boiler Room. My old apartment had rats, roaches, ants, etc that would come in through the front door and go right under the huge crack in my doorway. My new apartment has had rats, roaches, bugs, etc coming in from the first floor. If the GrrenMarket people here are anything like other people I&#039;ve seen, these areas will be cleaner than they were before. I would love to have a GreenMarket next door to me, and am glad that there are now two within very close walking distance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I lived above the Boiler Room. My old apartment had rats, roaches, ants, etc that would come in through the front door and go right under the huge crack in my doorway. My new apartment has had rats, roaches, bugs, etc coming in from the first floor. If the GrrenMarket people here are anything like other people I&#8217;ve seen, these areas will be cleaner than they were before. I would love to have a GreenMarket next door to me, and am glad that there are now two within very close walking distance.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.alexdorival.com/rr/2006/04/20/this-will-teach-you/comment-page-1/#comment-96</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Apr 2006 21:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.alexdorival.com/rr/2006/04/20/this-will-teach-you/#comment-96</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t necessarily think that this is a rich v. poor thing; neighborhoods complain about development.  Period.  As much as I want a Greenmarket in the neighborhood, I think I would be very concerned if it were going up right next to me.  Given that I&#039;ve had some rodent/roach problems living over a restaurant, I might not necessarily jump on board.  Granted, people aren&#039;t very self-sacrificing when it comes to the public good if they aren&#039;t seeing an immediate benefit.  I mean, look at all the complaints about Sloan-Kettering building too high.  For chrissake, they&#039;re trying to cure cancer!  So it&#039;s not surprising that the rich residents of the UES would not want something around that (a) disrupts their quiet(ish) neighborhood and (b) brings rats and/or poor people.

And I hate to say it but you went to Brearley; you are the bourgeouis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t necessarily think that this is a rich v. poor thing; neighborhoods complain about development.  Period.  As much as I want a Greenmarket in the neighborhood, I think I would be very concerned if it were going up right next to me.  Given that I&#8217;ve had some rodent/roach problems living over a restaurant, I might not necessarily jump on board.  Granted, people aren&#8217;t very self-sacrificing when it comes to the public good if they aren&#8217;t seeing an immediate benefit.  I mean, look at all the complaints about Sloan-Kettering building too high.  For chrissake, they&#8217;re trying to cure cancer!  So it&#8217;s not surprising that the rich residents of the UES would not want something around that (a) disrupts their quiet(ish) neighborhood and (b) brings rats and/or poor people.</p>
<p>And I hate to say it but you went to Brearley; you are the bourgeouis.</p>
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